The saga continues on the Big Ten all-time coaching statistics.  Readers of this site know that at the urging of a pesky blogger, the Big Ten officials updated their records last season to reflect the time Michigan left the conference from 1907-1916. 

The result was a boost to Fielding Yost’s lead over Jim Tressel in conference win percentage by coaches from .833 to .888 (here are the current numbers, through last year’s bowls):

B1G Conference Records

Mark Snyder discussed the ramifications of the Ohio State self-imposed vacated wins on the all-time records in this recent piece, & note Mark corrected Yost’s official win pct last night ;)

As Snyder points out, I think we can assume nothing is official until the NCAA/Big Ten complete their investigations.   I asked the Big Ten offices to confirm and I’m guessing they will say it be resolved when the investigation is completed. 

[Update July 11] I got the expected response from the Big Ten’s Scott Chipman:

My question:  Scott, is there an official ruling from the Big Ten on how the Ohio State sanctions/vacated wins affect Tressel’s conference win percentage?  Or is this all pending the final NCAA/B10 rulings on the sanctions?

Chipman’s reply:  Greg, As of right now, that’s all TBD.

I see a few possible outcomes that could impact these records once again:

Final Punishment



Revised  Win %


1 NCAA reverses vacated wins; no change in 2010 record. 106 22 0.828 Pigs fly.
2 All 12 wins taken off the books, only the loss to Wisconsin remains 94 22 0.810 Tressel remains #2 behind Yost on the Big Ten books, slightly above Bo who’s at .796
3 All 12 2010 wins now reflected as losses on the books 94 34 0.734 Tressel drops to #7 on the all-time list, behind Yost, Bo, Crisler, Carr, Woody, etc.
4 The entire 2010 season is wiped (0-0), but Tressel is still officially coach for the 2010 season. 94 21 0.817 He remains on the list at #2, given he still qualifies with 10 seasons.
5 The entire 2010 season is wiped (0-0), and Tressel doesn’t get credit for coaching in the conference last season 94 21 0.817 Poof! Tressel completely wiped from the record books–he would not meet the minimum 10 year qualification.


Of course that assumes the punishment stays somewhere within the framework for the self-imposed penalty.  If not, there are many other potential outcomes:

  • The Big Ten could decide to take some action that’s not consistent with the NCAA ruling (like making a ruling on only the conference games, which would tweak the above table).
  • The NCAA penalty could go deeper than 2010, resulting in a bigger shift in the rankings.
  • And there’s the off chance the other coaches (Carr) could be credited with additional wins shifting the rankings even further.

Related: The ‘H’ is for Handlebar (1896)

Last week when U-M SID Bruce Madej called into WTKA 1050AM to douse the rumor of a potential deal in the works to sack Rodriguez in favor of lighter NCAA sanctions, he half-jokingly wondered if there are people out there thinking, “Well it’s been three days, how can we hit Rich again?’”

Ugh.  Turn over the egg timer.

Via a tweet from Mark Snyder of the Freep, former DB Morgan Trent is one of the NFL players profiled in the book Draft Season, which chronicles the story of four mid-round draft picks from 2009. provided a book summary and noted a claim by Trent that Lloyd Carr told him that prior to the draft, Rodriguez trashed Trent “to every NFL scout he could”":

At the end of the book, Deren describes the scene with Lloyd Carr, the former Michigan head coach that recruited him to Ann Arbor, breaking the news to Trent that current head coach Rich Rodriguez did him no favors.

“Rodriguez had bad-mouthed him to every NFL scout he could,” Deren writes. “Rodriguez claimed that Morgan was lazy, he had an attitude problem and he was a big reason the Wolverines finished with a 3-9 record…”

Trent admits the words were “jarring,” and they were hard to understand given that he was so serious about his career that he actually moved in with his brother and sister-in-law and their two small children while going to Michigan.

But Trent was also worried about what Carr thought about his words showing up in the book.  He talks to him, not Rodriguez.

“I really like Coach Carr. He’s been very good to me,” Morgan says. “I think at first he was wondering, but I let him know it didn’t put him in a bad light. I would never do something like that to Lloyd. He’s great.”

So if you follow this, Trent’s effectively saying that Carr was aware that this was going in the book and didn’t stop him.   They have no comment or quote from Rodriguez.

Thankfully Bengals secondary coach Kevin Coyle provided some perspective on this, admitting he didn’t directly speak to Rodriguez before the draft (which seems odd to me) and reminding us that there are two sides to every story:

“When there is a coaching transition and the team ends up not having success, you have to step back and try to decipher what the truth really is,” Coyle says. “There was a lot of heat on those people and there was some pointing of blame.  Plus, the players were somewhat chagrined, so you had to look at everything.”

So a couple things here.  First, I’m struggling to find a motivation for Rodriguez to trash Trent unless you believe RR truly is a big prick.  What does he have to gain by dumping on a player to scouts – what, to help explain a crappy season to guys in the NFL?   Doesn’t add up. At best I can see Rodriguez, when asked, being honest in his assessment and maybe about an incident or two that put Trent in a bad light.  Beyond that, it would seem to only boost Rodriguez and the reputation of Barwis and crew to get more players drafted and to have success in the NFL, even if they were only around for a year.

I’m not sure what to make of the Carr stuff, and I guess I’d like to hear from him specifically what he heard and what he told Trent, or better yet, hear this corroborated by a few NFL scouts.   I’m sure a lot of scouts called both Rodriguez and Carr to get the skinny on Trent, and those scouts probably shared information with the coaches.

As far as Carr allegedly spilling the beans about Rodriguez badmouthing Trent to Trent -  I guess I’ll say that in a perfect world Carr and Rodriguez would meet at Coach and Four every day to talk football, kinda like those guys in Hoosiers.  But that doesn’t happen and nowhere is it required that all Michigan coaches (past, present and future) be pals.

[Ed 5/10 –>  I heard some people this morning on WTKA 1050AM asking for Lloyd Carr to  apologize.  For what?  If you piece this together, we’re talking about a  (1) writer who wrote about something he heard from (2) Trent, who relayed something about something he was told by (3) Carr, about something Carr apparently heard from another  (4) scout or team about what (5) Rodriguez allegedly said to a  (6) scout or team about Trent, which Rodriguez now denies.  What?  I’d like to know, did the writer walk through this line and try to validate any of the story?  ]


As an aside, Geoff Hobson wrote the piece for and included this:

“What was really hard for me was coming into the draft after being on a team with a bad record,” he says of the worst record in Michigan history.

Come on, man.  Don’t make me do this again.